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Pat
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... Collusion is when the owners conspire together to keep free agent prices down. Conversations between teams about free agency is strictly forbidden by the CBA. After free agent prices were sluggish in both 2002 and 2003, the players alleged collusion and the owners agreed to pay $12 million to the MLBPA as part of the 2006 CBA. You can read (a lot) more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_collusion |
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apk
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... Hell look at the Brewers. They made the playoffs. They've showed a commitment to winning and a strong young nucleus to build around. Nice to see that CC Sabathia stuck around, and that they were able to bring in a couple of nice free agent bats to compliment said young nucleus. I hear that Manny's giving them a look. Guess it really just is that easy to build. Huh? |
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w.k. kortas
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... I can understand Wilson's--and, before him, Bay's--frustration, but what exactly is the definition of "competitive?" The current roster, if enough things broke right, could be competitive if you define it as the 75-win pace the club was on before the trade deadline last year--if everything went right that possibly could go right, this club could even sneak to the 82 wins that many feel would be scaling the Bucs' particular statistical Everest. And they'd still be in 3rd or 4th place. To me, "competitive" means competing to be playing meaningful games in October. This current team is about 25 games in the standings away from doing that. As Pat and others here have noted, that's going to have to be from the ground up. The players who are going to make the Pirates competitive are going to be players like Tabata, A-Cutch, Alvarez, maybe (hopefully?) Lincoln and Morris, not second-and-third tier free agents. To be near or at .500 is not the grail. Playing in a World Series is. |
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BigE
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... Show 'em the moolah and they will come. Unfortunately, that means that the PBC needs an owner who has that kind of money and is willing to spend it. |
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Pat
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... I don't think that CC Sabathia comes to Pittsburgh even if the Pirates match the offer the Yankees made. When it comes to the Pirates, it's about more than money. |
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Bishop
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... Nutting has said, repeatedly, that he will spend the money to on free agents when the team is in a position to make the most of said signings. If we take him at his word, then we have to understand that this is not the year for them to do it. I know that bashing the cheapskate Pirates' ownership is the sexy thing to do, but does anyone out there honestly understand what is being paid for free agents? Raul Ibanez, a fairly decent 35-year old outfielder, just got $10MM+ from the Phillies, and he's far from the final piece in a championship puzzle; he's a piece on a team that just won the championship. Mark Texiera for $20MM+ per year??? Does his name ever come up when discussing the top-5, top-10, hell, top-20 players in the game? He's not in the same class as Pujols or A-Rod or Manny, but his agent (say it with me, kids - Scott Boras) has whipped the market into a frenzy talking about what a special player Texiera is and how much interest there is in him, and the big-market teams are all sucking down that Kool-Aid, falling over themselves to give away more money than the other. The Nationals and Orioles made offers because he is from Baltimore and they thought, foolishly, he might give them a hometown discount, but due to the ineptitude of both of those franchises, they will have to seriously overpay him to even think about it. It really would be great for the Pirates to go out and spend lots of money bringing in the Sabathias and Burnetts of the world, but face it, there are two leagues in baseball, and I'm not talking NL and AL. The large-market, big-money teams will always have an advantage, because they generate more local revenue than the smaller-market teams, usually have owners who have deeper pockets to begin with, and they have a larger base from which to draw fans, so their attendance tends to be higher. Sabathia didn't stay in Milwaukee because the Yankees threw 60 million more dollars at him than the Brewers did, not because he thought the Yankees actually had a better chance to win. Even if he knew that the Yankees would never win a World Series during the length of that contract, do you think he, or anyone, would pass up 60 million dollars? All I'm saying is, love the Pirates if you want, hate them if you want, but at least be honest with yourself about the situation. Stop holding them to the same standards that the moneyed teams live up to, because they will never meet those expectations. |
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Bishop
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... Put a 10 in front of Ibanez' salary and a 20 in front of Texiera's. Some day I'll figure out how to work the dollar sign. |
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thegunner
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... Bishop --- take a long look at what Teixera has done in his relatively short career. He is definitely one of the five top everyday players in baseball today. |
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Reboulet
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... 1. Pujols 2. A-Rod 3. Hanley 4. Utley 5 - etc.... Wright, Reyes, Howard, Fielder, Holliday, Mauer, Morneau..... you get my point. Tex is very, very good. But not 'definitely top five'. He just happens to be the best free agent position player available. I'm with Bishop. |
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Bishop
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... Gunner - Below are the statistics of two players who both came up in 2003, averaged over a 162-game season. Can you tell who they are by just the numbers, which are almost identical? Player 1 - .290/.378/.541. 40 2B, 2 3B, 36 HR, 2 SB, 134 OPS+ Player 2 - .282/.375/.516, 34 2B, 4 3B, 31 HR, 11 SB, 131 OPS+ Now for the big reveal: Player 1 is Mark Texiera, who you called one of the top five everyday players in baseball. Player 2 is Jason Bay, who I'm sure you, or anyone else, wouldn't even think about in a discussion of the top 5 or 10 or 20 everyday players in the game. And please, no one bring up Tex's defense as being a huge differentiator, because 1B is probably the easiest position on the diamond to play; why do you think lumps like the Fielders (Older and Younger), Mo Vaughn and Ryan Howard got stuck there when they had to play the field? Mark Texiera is getting all this run because, as Reboulet points out, he is the best free agent position player available this year and Scott Boras is playing that up as though it means he is one of the best players in baseball. Also, the Angels and Red Sox are hot and heavy for him, and the Yankees are skulking in the background, so the 4-Letter feels obligated to overhype him; do you honestly think if the only teams interested in him were the Astros and the Mariners he'd be plastered all over every ESPN outlet and every other major news source. Of course not, but because the big-money teams are on his trail, he's apparently gained some kind of demi-god status. |
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thegunner
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... Opinion are like a-holes. Everybody has one. That's what makes the Hot Stove League and blogging what they are! |
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MattB
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... http://www.beyondtheboxscore.c...rs-of-2008 Tex comes in at #6 in 2008, for what it's worth. |
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gregschuler
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... The TIgers were coming off a losing 119 games in a season when they signed Pudge Rodriguez to an overmarket contract. That attracted Magglio Ordonez and the Tigers went from 119 losses to the World Series in a few seasons. And they did it with an aggressive ownership and front office and by emphasizing talent on the big league team. Now, there will be consequences for that run, but you can argue that it was worth it. And given how aggressive the front office is, I would say that within a few seasons, they will have replenished their prospect cupboard (remember, the Tigers fired Greg Smith because he had overseen a string of poor drafts - lucky Pirates). Rebuilding efforts don't have to endless and long affairs done solely through the minors. If by signing Teixiera, the Nationals accelerate their cycle, great. There is no one way to build a team - that's why a dogmatic approach is likely to fail. Flexibility should be the watchword within any organization. The only goal should be improving the organization. |
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gregschuler
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... Whose chances do you like better next year for a winning record, or close to it? Milwaukee (even after losing Sabathia and Sheets) or the Pirates? Exactly - Milwaukee knew that there was no chance to resign Sabathia and they had always been prepared to let Sheets walk because of his injury history. Losing Jack Zduriencik will hurt more than any player. Milwaukee was at least willing to make a creative offer to Sabathia. And what bats are out there that would improve the Brewers in free agency? Their defense is bad enough to not want to stick Ramirez or Dunn out there, but who knows? Free agency is designed as a showcase for a limited number of players so that the most money wins. Get over it. |
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gregschuler
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... What you have pointed out is what a bargain Bay was to every team and how the Pirates undersold that asset. Free agency is deisgned to allow only a few players to hit the market, thus increasing the earning potential of those players. If Bay hits the market next season, he may seek a salary similar to Texiera. Or not - it all depends. What Boras is doing is what Boras does - goes after every dollar available by every means necessary. |
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gregschuler
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... The Pirates shouldn't be looking to build through free agency, but every team should always be actively seeking to improve the organization through any means necessary. if that means signing a free agent - do it. It really is that simple. The dogmatic approach of, we can only rebuild through the draft and amateur talent is bogus and not a sure path to success. Who here trusts the talent evaluators employed by the Pirates? If there is a free agent out there that could improve the team, sign him. End of discussion. |
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